My heavens, friends!
2024 is over halfway over, wedding season is over halfway over, school is about to start, and Artifice Season 10 is 1/5th released!
I always try to orient my Deep Dives around my present-day context (it’s just more meaningful to me that way, I guess), and these three episodes feel salient in SO many ways.
What a GIFT it was to interview Hale. I’m so grateful for and proud of this conversation.
For one thing, I’m always curious about the nature vs nurture of our creativity, of our artistic identities…and Hale and I seem cut from SUCH a similar cosmic cloth in these ways.
We were formed in environments with key analogs and equally crucial differences. We’ve taken our meandering journeys through the first 30+ years of our lives, and have (mysteriously-or-not) landed in very similar philosophical places.
I don’t know – there’s just something beautifully kindred about it for me. I feel like I can see myself in a different way after hearing Hale share more of her story.
Honestly, this alone is so valuable: “Nobody raised me with values I agreed with, so I was out there finding them for myself.”
It’s so clearly and beautifully said. This one is going to stay with me, for sure.
A tangent.
I’ve recently noticed an odd trend in my behavior and curiosity.
It should come as no surprise that I’m sort of always reading books – I was going to say “almost always non-fiction,” but the truth is it’s exclusively non-fiction – and I’m a pretty exploratory podcast listener, too.
But it’s weird. Sometimes ALL I want is celebrity memoirs and true crime podcasts, and sometimes I can’t get enough science, and I just want to read and listen to things that open my world in brand new ways.
So, the thing I’ve realized recently is that it seems this science/fact-craving seems to be seasonal. ☀️
I can look back three years and clearly see the Audible history tilting toward science during the mid/late summer. I don’t know that I have theories yet…but possible factors could include (1) lots of cross-country solo travel for intermountain destination weddings (2) a months-long break from school? (3) sunshiny, blue-sky summer? (4) more time outdoors >> insatiable curiosity about the natural world? …
Regardless of the reason, this is something I’ve noticed.
And THIS year, one of the books I read while driving through scenic Idaho/Montana/Wyoming was a rad tome about dopamine:
“The Molecule of More: How a Single Chemical in Your Brain Drives Love, Sex, and Creativity―and Will Determine the Fate of the Human Race”
Tell me this isn’t one hell of a title! I think it caught my attention mostly because I’m [obviously] obsessed with art and creativity.
But OMG guys, when I got into this thing, I had an epiphany.
One of the early chapters was talking about dopamine (a future-focused chemical), and how it’s sort of situated in balance with the “here and now” chemicals (serotonin, oxytocin, endorphins, and endocannabinoids).
And then, of course, there’s the way dopamine is related to creativity and productivity – envisioning something and taking steps to realize that vision is a freely available way to procure dopamine for oneself.
And I just realized – THIS is why I needed creativity so much, as a child.
I mean, I already knew that art was an escape from the trauma of my childhood…but seeing it described in a neurochemical way moves me so much.
I’m so proud of my little self for this resourcefulness. I wasn’t getting the “here and now” chemicals I desperately needed, but I figured out how to keep my self on a steady dopamine drip. And it was enough to get me through my childhood and teens with enough vibrancy to get AWAY.
It’s so, so rad.
[I’m tempted to add a footnote here about how I’m probably also genetically predisposed toward a “dopaminergic” personality – I am a product of two VERY productive family systems. We are a dopamine-motivated people. So, there’s also that.]
And I’m sure it’s partly my wonderful pattern-making brain at work connecting various neural sparks, but I heard parallel stories from ALL of July’s Artifice guests.
As Andrew always says (and now I say maybe even more frequently) “no models are true, but some are useful.”
And this model feels pretty useful, and very wholesome!
There is a sort of wandering curiosity, a propensity toward exploration, that unites the four of us – Hale, Birgir, Kimber, and myself (maybe you, too).
As I relistened to my conversation with Hale, I noticed this model centering around (1) a mistrust of the status quo, so-called “truth” presented by various early-life authorities #relatable, and (2) radical acceptance – or maybe a radically abundant contextualizing? – of life’s challenges.
I usually try to limit myself to 1-2 quotes per guest, but it is not gonna be poss this time, bro. There are too many great ones…
Early on in the convo, Hale said this: “I had this suspicion that all the things they said not to do, or that were wrong or bad or gross or anything else – there has to be something there to learn that they don’t want me to know. And I went out and I learned it.”
UGH! What a badass. I love it so much. “I went out and I learned it.” Iconic.
I do relate to this so much.
Another tangent…
Mormons have this sort of magical-thinking community practice where the “Patriarch” in your geographically-mandated church community (basically, it’s an older dude whose address is within your geographical church boundaries who is assigned certain duties for all of the members in said geographical church boundaries) performs a coming-of-age ritual for younger members.
We call it a “Patriarchal Blessing.”
It typically will happen when a young person is preparing to go on a church mission (or maybe to participate in advanced temple rituals, maybe to get married), but I asked for my blessing when I was freshly fourteen.
I’d completed my “Personal Progress” program (sort of a feeble, female equivalent of an Eagle Scout), and was in desperate need of guidance and support. #childabuse #narcissisticabuse
Anyway. In the biggest irony of ironies, my patriarchal blessing includes the following line:
“God respects truth regardless of where it is found.”
That line gave me SUCH peace and permission. And ultimately led me right out of a few toxic institutions…
Radical!
But yes. LEARNING!
Truth. Knowledge. The pull of curiosity. The propensity for fielding shifts in paradigm.
It’s everything.
More Mic Drop Moments from Hale:
- “I would love to have my mind changed at any given time, because that means that I am now a little bit more accurate, or a little bit more empathetic, or whatever the thing is…that’s the goal!”
- “If you’re a curious and open person, almost any of your life experiences become a tool, even the bad ones.”
- “We take our experiences and our curiosity, and we learn what we need to learn from almost whatever situation we’re in.” << Hale is careful (and correct) to clarify
All I can say is…Amen, sister. So well said. I couldn’t be more on the same page.
There is such bravery in this outlook. In these actions.
It’s a story most people don’t like to tell, but it is just so fucking brave.
Since late 2022, I’ve been reporting that I’m in a “research” phase with my art practice.
Nobody has asked me to clarify 😅, but I think what I’m ultimately up to right now is synthesizing all that I’ve learned in the past several years, integrating these lessons and discoveries, and beginning to explore the world as a more integrated being.
Asking myself – what does the world look like from here? What can creativity do in-and/or-from this place?
It feels like Hale is on a similar path (though, likely a good several years ahead of me).
These last two pieces feel crucial:
When asked “What does it mean to live life artfully?” …
- “Approaching things with an attitude of curiosity is a big one. Trying to find something to love in everything, is really important…trying to find the lovable in things or people that have been discarded or cast aside has been one of the most rewarding and fulfilling ways that I feel like I’m being true to myself, I’m being true to my philosophy of wanting to live life like it’s art. Finding beauty in ugly things, or even just conventional and pedestrian things, in the common things, in all of the things.”
- “I don’t think I would have been on the quest that I was on if I had been shown perfect love. Maybe it would have been better? I would have missed out on the shitty journey, but I’m so grateful for that journey, and appreciative of it. Cause I know intimately what it’s like to feel unloved, and then to build your sense of self love and your love for others out of what feels like nothing. And so many people are starting at that same point that I can’t really wish that I’d had a different ride. Otherwise, I wouldn’t know!”
Yes, yes, yes. Amen, amen, amen. I’m right here with you.
This is peak creativity.
With Birgir, I notice these themes in a slightly different way.
I say it all the time, but this podcast has absolutely changed my life. My mind is not the same mind it was. My worldview is expanded.
I’ve been wigged out about medium for a LONG time [if you’re curious, just type the word “medium” into the search bar on my website and peruse, accordingly].
But lately, I find my beliefs coalescing around some new principles.
It seems like creatively-active people are consistently applying our creativity to solve problems, to maximize resources (or joy, or any number of things), to curate more of what we love and less of what we don’t, to regulate ourselves in various ways…
In my mind, all of these efforts are “mediums” for each of us.
And again, finding and developing them is (or at least, may be) an exercise in that same sort of wandering curiosity I mentioned above. This exploratory drive. Again, a curating.
From what I can gather, Birgir has curated a WONDERFUL balance of mediums for himself:
Sports/physical activity keeps him well enough to participate in other mediums.
Acting is “a different channel” that allows him to get into “a different character…I get happy, I get silly.”
This is honestly profound to me. As a child, Birgir explored this medium by playing a clown in puppet shows and skits for his church. As an adult, it “comes out when I’m drunk.”
Again, I find this BEAUTIFUL. There’s something revelatory about it.
This happy silliness is an important facet-of-self for which Birgir has found a reliable outlet, a little nest – getting tipsy with trusted friends! I love it.
But of course, this IS so similar to facets of “acting,” as we understand it more generally.
As a medium, acting allows us to connect with certain emotions not readily applicable to the real-time, daily context of our lives. For the actor, and for the audience.
Relatedly, Birgir loves studying history and psychology. He summarizes it as a love of storytelling! And OF COURSE this is one reason history and psychology are compelling, are important.
Birgir also connects this medium (storytelling) back to his religious upbringing. “All these stories, all the time. I don’t have count of how many sermons I’ve heard…and they are always telling stories. Stories of people, of Jesus…so, stories have always interested me.”
I LOVE this contextualizing of religious stories. I’m always looking for ways to reintegrate the things I loved about religion in my childhood (severed from the toxicity and abuse), and this is such a gift of a perspective. Thank you, Birgir!
As a note, the medium of storytelling is mostly consumptive in Birgir’s curated+abundant…milieu? umwelt? behavior feng shui? lifestyle mycelium? anthropomorphized OS?
…in any case, I increasingly believe the mediums we mindfully and carefully consume are as critical and active as the mediums in which we produce. This just feels intuitive to me. If a little anti-capitalist (pro-social?).
What we take in is a crucial part of the equation. We can (and ought to, imo) own these mediums as part of our creative process.
Birgir speaks with conviction about the impact of crafting/homemaking/folk-art-skills in his personal evolution. Of his grandmother’s knitting, in particular, he says “it’s a lot of inspiration…you can do something from nothing. You can create! It’s very powerful.”
To that I say, indeed! And again, amen.
Of his main medium, music, Birgir reflects:
- “I practiced a lot. Right away. And immediately, I could really feel that I could express myself making notes, making music…it was a way to finally express myself.”
- “When I play the bass, I am always expressing myself…I’m quite connected with my instrument, and it’s kind of like a part of me. And I’m always expressing deep feelings of whatever I’ve been through, and also gratitude to God… If I had a terrible day, I tend to play better. And then I get more emotional, and my lines are nicer, in a way.”
Expression! How valuable. How incredibly valuable. Critical.
I also feel the need to include this little nugget:
“I’m kind of boxy in some ways, as well…I do some things always the same, every day.”
I just love this! It’s so relatable, and so important. Yet again, a sort of creative self-regulation.
It reminds me of my conversation with Reed Criddle (Ep. 91). He’s one of the most organized people I know (we value this quality in each other #takesonetoknowone), but talks about little pockets of absolute chaos in his life – a drawer, for example.
And for Birgir, there are these areas of boxy-ness.
I certainly see some of that balance in myself, as well. Abundant exploration and curiosity balanced by routine, or maybe a safe sort of rigidity in certain places. Wonderful.
Birgir sums up, beautifully:
“I learned the techniques I need to do in my life to feel good, to deal with myself…exercise, go to therapy, play bass, meet people, don’t isolate, have a community.”
If you ask me, these are all mediums. They amount to a cultivated balance. And certainly, they are the result of open-minded exploration, and mindful action.
So. Wonderful.
Kimber, Kimber, Kimber.
I’m SO glad to have met you.
My favorite thing about Kimber’s story is the incredible meandering journey she has taken, gathering and building pieces of herself along the way.
Kimber’s arrival point doesn’t (couldn’t) exist without each of these seemingly unrelated ventures.
The map doesn’t make sense until you get to the end (or at least, an end…I fully trust that Kimber’s map will continue to unfurl).
First of all, she is SO curious.
Of her science-to-art path, she reflects that we use both science AND art “to shape our understanding of the world. Science helps us learn about the physical world, the world around us, how and why things are that way…but art is our interpretation of the world around us, and our human experience. So I think that, in a sense, they’re both forms of discovery. They’re both forms of a very human need to know things, whether it’s knowing ourselves, or knowing the world around us. I think they have a lot more in common than people initially think.” 🔥
Second, she is SOOO fucking brave. So. Brave!
This woman has done so many amazing, terrifying things. What an absolute badass!
Quotes I love:
- “I’m good at making myself try things.”
- “It’s so much better than being bored. I’ll do anything – I’ll take the pain, and the stress, and the anxiety, and the fear over nothing. Any day.” [type “boring” into my website search bar to find my thoughts on this topic…I have a few! #samepage]
- “I don’t like to be embarrassed. I don’t think anybody likes to be embarrassed, or called out, or make mistakes, or look foolish, but I also think that that is a very valuable part of the human and the artistic experience, and I really try to fail my way forward. I now know what doesn’t work, so I’m a little better educated on what might work next time. And I think that audacity…I don’t know that you can teach that. I think people have to want it bad enough that they’re willing to look silly for it. Or they’re willing to look foolish. Or they’re willing to make mistakes for it. Or they’re willing to get rejected…and what’s the alternative? To play it too safe, to never really live, to never try, to always wonder, ‘what if’? And to me, I feel like that is far more nerve wracking.” <<<🔥⚡️💥👏
And guys, look what she does now…
This doesn’t just happen. This kind of magic is no accident.
Ok. Now check out this incredible wrap-up-slam-dunk series of quotes, still from Kimber…
So. Pertinent.
The similarity echoes between these three conversations in a way that gives me the most magical creeps.
First…
- “Different things in life set the stage for different parts, and it all had to happen in that way to come together…I know it’s such a trope to say ‘everything happens for a reason,’ but I do think that I wouldn’t be the artist I am today without those science degrees, without the failures, without me almost dying in that cave, that day…without those big things having happened, without those failures, the crushing disappointments, the shaken sense of self…I don’t think that I would be the empathetic, kind artist that I am today. I don’t think I would be as relentlessly encouraging.”
[Aside: Can we make “relentlessly encouraging” a trend, please? I want more of this.]
And finally, in the context of medium, purpose, searching for that integrated self-in-practice…
- “You say ‘yes’ to enough things, and sooner or later you’ll find something that strikes a chord with your soul…If I can find my strange little niche, and be happy and flourish, and make a great living, and help other women get into it…there are so many avenues for success in life. And success just is not the one-size-fits-all that I used to think it was.”
Say it with me!
Success. Is not. The one-size-fits-all. I used to think it was.
I know Kimber would agree that we could say the same of joy, of wellness, of purpose, and on, and on.
We are each CREATING these gorgeous little forests for ourselves. Our vivifying nests, bespoke.
Wandering, exploring, discovering, creating.
What else is there to say?
Until next time…
Love,
Emily
P.S. Here’s a picture of me with a cool tree.
